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Here’s a startling statistic: 20% of women never negotiate. To put that into context, a woman who doesn’t negotiate her starting salary upon graduating from college will lose between $650,000 and $1 million over the course of a 45-year career, according to Harvard Business Review. In order to close the gender pay gap, we need to narrow the gender negotiation gap. However, we know that’s easier said than done.
For tips on how to negotiate, we turned to none other than Jennifer Justice, a former music attorney who has orchestrated major deals for artists like Beyoncé and Rihanna. Justice (and yes, that’s her real name) has spent much of her career working to close the gender pay gap and even founded The Justice Dept., a management, strategy, and legal firm that works almost exclusively with women, in order to help more women succeed in business and get paid what they’re worth.
Ahead, Justice reveals how she’s navigated negotiations as a woman in a traditionally male-dominated industry and shares her top three tips for getting what you want once you’re at the negotiating table.
CREATE & CULTIVATE: You’ve worked with some of the hardest-working women in the music industry, including Beyoncé. What have you learned from negotiating deals for some of the most successful women in the business?
JENNIFER JUSTICE: I have learned that women do much better having female advocates. We think differently, we assess risk differently, we go through different life changes, so we need our advocates to understand how we think. We aren’t brought up with business vernacular, and female advocates understand this. We need to embrace our changes and find the advocates who understand this about us.
Can you tell us about the first major deal you negotiated for a female professional in the music industry? What went right and what went wrong? When did you first notice the glaring gender pay gap in the industry?
I was representing women and men in the industry. I did a deal with a major publishing company for an entry-level director executive who was male—he was offered off the bat $130k. He hadn’t signed anyone yet (ie. brought in any revenue) and they were paying him for potential.
I then did a deal for the senior director for the same department—female—and her first offer was $90k. I was outraged. Why was this okay? Not only with the company, but in general? I fought for her and fought for her and they raised it to $100k but said she didn’t have enough experience yet.
So moral of the story was: men get hired on potential and women for experience. This is still true to this day and there is a ton of research to back it up.
“Try to do business with as many women as you can. Build each other up so we have our own table instead of asking for a seat at a table you don’t even really want to be at.”
How have you navigated negotiations as a woman in a traditionally male-dominated industry? Have you found that men in the room treat you differently? How have you overcome that and earned the respect you have today? What advice can you share?
As a woman, I had to repeat myself all the time and be relentless to get what I wanted. Men definitely treated me differently, from flirting, to calling me “kiddo,” “sweetie,” and “honey,” to total sexual harassment, offering me the deal if I gave them what they wanted.
But I didn’t let it stop me. I just kept going and getting the best deals I could. I was relentless and probably got my way mostly because not only was I right, they couldn’t get me to stop.I nagged them to death. After a while, I was experienced enough with enough years and reputation behind me that I didn’t have to use those tactics, but I shouldn’t have had to in the first place.
My advice: be relentless and call it out if you see the same misogynistic behavior. Try to do business with as many women as you can. Build each other up so we have our own table instead of asking for a seat at a table you don’t even really want to be at.
Negotiating—especially for money—takes confidence. Is this something that comes naturally to you or did you have to work on it? How did you develop that skill set? What advice can you share on cultivating confidence?
It’s always easy negotiating for money for someone else. It’s not easy doing it for yourself—even for me. There is a saying, any lawyer that represents themselves has a fool for a client. Same applies to you—try to have someone else negotiate. If you can’t or can’t afford it, you need to practice, you need to pretend you are negotiating for your kids—because that is who you represent, ultimately—not your job, but your family or whatever else you really love. Do it for them and it will make it so much easier!
How do you determine your worth so you can fight for what you deserve as well as for what your clients deserve in a negotiation? What tips can you share for others trying to determine their worth before walking into a negotiation?
My worth is my experience. What takes me 15 minutes could take others hours. I should get paid more for that and I do. I look at the market rates, my experience, my expertise, and I ask others how they charge. I do the same for my clients. Women do a lot of “free” work and give a lot of “free” advice. We need to charge for it—all of it—and really embrace that we are worth it. So you can have an hour of my time, after that, I deserve to get paid for my advice.
“More money in women’s hands means more money in the economy—we control 80% of the purchasing power. Pay us and we will make the world a better place. ”
You’ve spent much of your career working to close the gender pay gap. What still needs to change in order for us to level the playing field?
We all need to acknowledge that it exists, first of all. Don’t say, “Oh, we have a lot of women at our company—over 50%.” Having women at the company isn’t the issue. It’s having women on the board (more than two), having women in the C-suite (more than two of them) in decision making and revenue-generating roles where their decisions are heard and implemented because they are running the companies. Then we all need to make it happen and keep it that way.
To me, there is an urgency. We should fight for it because we are 50% of the population. Equal pay is necessary on a human level, but also on a financial level. Companies do better when they have women on their boards, women in the exec decision-making roles, and more money in women’s hands means more money in the economy—we control 80% of the purchasing power. Pay us and we will make the world a better place.
We can only imagine that you’ve negotiated hundreds of deals at this point, so we’d love to know: What are your top three negotiation tips? How do you enter a negotiation with confidence and secure the deal?
The first tip is to actually negotiate. Don’t take the first offer. Second, do your homework. Ask to see what the market is for what you are negotiating, ask people, be prepared. Third, understand your goals and what you want. Know what you will give and what you absolutely must have so if you don’t get it, you can walk away.
This story was originally published on March 31, 2020, and has since been updated.
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